Questions and ideas

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Tue May 03, 2005 3:23 am

I'm very pleased with the functionality of SBuilder overall, and I have some comments and questions.

Questions:
- is there a way to combine the output BGLs so only a single BGL is generated?
- can I set the lat/long format to DD mm.mm?
- is there a way to get a full list of FS9 default objects as one can do in Arno's ObjectPlacer? The list is rather limited.

Suggestions for future improvement:
- key assignments: ctl-z for undo, ctl-y for redo
- undo should be latest action, not complete function. For example, when adding points to a line, undo should undo the last point, not the entire line
- allow compilation when FS9 is running, users choice in option menu. This is an important one for me. It is possible in FS9 to modify some types of BGLs while FS9 is running and reload to see the results. I first go to an airport far away from my area of interest (I like Antarctica), change the BGLs then go back to my area of interest. This results in a 45 second turnaround instead of several minutes. Although I appreciate the difficulties that can arise if care is not taken, I would like to have this option
- strongly suggest that default data files default to a folder in "My Documents" not in the Program Files folder. Many addon programs seem to mix up code and data space like this. Makes backups messy
- latest file list is great function, but should be latest SAVED file name, not LOADED file name. I often do "Save As" and so the latest file list is not accurate
- generic building construction function with preview of result would be awesome
- the current aircraft position crosshair appears UNDER the polygon fills, so it can't be seen sometimes!

Thanks again for a great program,

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

Luis Sa · Post by **Luis Sa** » Tue May 03, 2005 8:49 am

Hello,

Thank you for the feedback.

Combination of BGLs

The best is to organize BGLs in a clear way with names reflecting the content. This is most useful for compatibity. The user can select which BGL to use specially if several designers have offers. You can set the switch SINGLE LWM BGL in order to combine LWM Area Fills with LWM Polys. If you have several projects with VTP polys you can append them in a single file. But Lines will get their own file and do not get mixed with polys. This is the way MS makes scenery. They place stream lines separated from roads, and all these 2 separated from railroads ...

Lat Lon format

You can have 2 formats in SBuilder. If you set the option in FS9.CFG

[MAIN]
...
DISPLAY_FRACTIONAL_MINUTES=0

you will get the format that most designers use which is dd mm ss.ssss.

List of Objects

There is a file that I pointed out in a previous answer that lists all available objects. You need to organize your own OBJECTS.TXT creating the categories that you find most adequate. Some categories can be made of "region locked objects". It really depends on you

Suggestions:

key assignments: ctl-z for undo, ctl-y for redo

I can add this!

undo should be latest action

this is difficult to change. Note that you can create a line with 2 points. Then you can enter a special Insert mode in 2 ways: holding I and pressing the line or pressing once the INSERT key; in this last case you insert points whenever you click on the line; you exit this mode by pressing ESCAPE or the right mouse button; Undo and Redo, in this mode, work as you wished.

- allow compilation when FS9 is running

I can not do much here; SBuilder copies the files to active scenery folders with FS9 running; but the Windows system will not allow that; you got a crash; so I implemented an error routine that shows a message to the user; I would like to avoid FS restart but I do not know how!

- strongly suggest that default data files default

I do not follow you here. Please clarify

- latest file list is great function, but should be latest SAVED file name ...

It seems a good suggestion; still if you open a certain file to look into something without saving?; I will consider this in a future revision.

- generic building construction function

Yes, but not in the near future. Autogen anotation was a priority but not now there is a new alternative;

- the current aircraft position crosshair ...

is that so? I must correct it!

Thank you for the feedback,

Luis

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Tue May 03, 2005 9:52 am

Hi Luis, see my responses below.

>You can have 2 formats in SBuilder. If you set the option in FS9.CFG
>you will get the format that most designers use which is dd mm
>ss.ssss.

I understand; this just wasn't my preferred format.

>List of Objects
>
>There is a file that I pointed out in a previous answer that lists
>all available objects. You need to organize your own OBJECTS.TXT
>creating the categories that you find most adequate. Some
>categories can be made of "region locked objects". It really
>depends on you

I don't think I was clear! I meant built-in previews of the objects; I do have various versions of the object list.

>- allow compilation when FS9 is running
>
>I can not do much here; SBuilder copies the files to active scenery
>folders with FS9 running; but the Windows system will not allow
>that; you got a crash; so I implemented an error routine that shows
>a message to the user; I would like to avoid FS restart but I do
>not know how!

Let me explain more clearly: I first go to a far away airport, and the scenery folder is no longer active. Then I can change files and Windows will not complain, and after changing files I can go back to the original area I was modifying. Total time: 45 seconds. Far faster than restarting FS9.

>- strongly suggest that default data files default
>
>I do not follow you here. Please clarify
>
In Windows, programs are intended to be in the Program Files folder. Data is intended to be in My Documents. However many programs for FS9 put data in the Program Files folder. I back up My Documents regularly, but not Program Files. I can of course change the default myself, and I have done. It's not a big deal, but I suggest that in future versions, default data folders are in My Documents.

>- latest file list is great function, but should be latest SAVED
>file name ...
>
>It seems a good suggestion; still if you open a certain file to
>look into something without saving?; I will consider this in a
>future revision.

Good point. Should probably be latest of EITHER latest saved and latest loaded.

>- generic building construction function
>
>Yes, but not in the near future. Autogen anotation was a priority
>but not now there is a new alternative;

Gotcha, but I don't know of a good program that does building construction. SGX does it without a preview, and has a number of other difficulties. Is there something else?

Thanks for listening,

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

bushpilots-chief · Post by **bushpilots-chief** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:55 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JonPatch
 Hi Luis, see my responses below.

.......

Let me explain more clearly: I first go to a far away airport, and the scenery folder is no longer active. Then I can change files and Windows will not complain, and after changing files I can go back to the original area I was modifying. Total time: 45 seconds. Far faster than restarting FS9.
.....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Jon,
i think, that is not possible. This is a restriction of MS. The FS must generate a new scenery.dat file and this can be do, when you restart the fs9.

I have my Sim change with the following settings. All scenery deactivatet, because i want the not. Also i have reduce the traffic of Null. So my Sim start's a little faster.

@Luis

I'm also pleased with your programm. Realy it's a great programm [:)]
Thanks for your hard work.

Best Regards
Manfred

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Tue May 03, 2005 11:50 pm

Hi Manfred,

I do understand the logic of what you are saying, but it does work, and I've been doing this for months. There are restrictions:

- you cannot add a .BGL file
- you cannot delete a .BGL file
- changes to an AFCAD file will not show up

But I can do it successfully with object BGLs, and as best as I recall with other types of BGLs as well. And with object BGLs, the MDL can be changed as well.

Caution is of course needed, and I do think that the current SBuilder error message makes sense, so the ability to do this should be an option. After I've fine-tuned my changes, I always do an FS restart to ensure that everything is OK.

Of course, I try to minimize how often I check with FS9, making as many changes as reasonable, and keeping a checklist, between each check.

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

Horst · Post by **Horst** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:23 am

Hello,
Jon

To:
“I meant built-in previews of the objects”

You can make additons, when you use the GUID Number for a bitmap as the name for the bitmap and you place it in the Sbuilder/Tools/bmps folder.
But you must make a screenshot before, of course.

You can also have a line preview for your own textures, when you place it in the folder.

To:
“Gotcha, but I don't know of a good program that does building construction. SGX does it without a preview, and has a number of other difficulties. Is there something else?“

You are using GMAX?

Kind regards
Horst

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:30 am

Hi Horst,

Thanks for responding...

>To:
>You can make additons, when you use the GUID Number for a bitmap as
>the name for the bitmap and you place it in the Sbuilder/Tools/bmps
>folder.
>But you must make a screenshot before, of course.

Thanks for this explanation.

>To:
>“Gotcha, but I don't know of a good program that does building
>construction. SGX does it without a preview, and has a number of
>other difficulties. Is there something else?“
>
>You are using GMAX?

I wasn't clear, yes I make many custom buildings with gmax, but but by "building construction" I am referring to the creation of generic buildings.

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

Horst · Post by **Horst** » Wed May 04, 2005 1:07 am

Hello Jon,
Maybe I can not follow with my english.

But Luis referred to Art Martins new Autogen Tool.
I do not have the correct link now, and can not reach Arnos scenerydesign.org,
You will find the forum for Arts Tool there.
You place generic autogen objects to your photo secenery

Otherwise you can place almost every object inside Sbuilder.
All generic buildings – these are the library objects - you only restricted to “"region locked objects".
For example: You can not place something like “The Golden Gate bridge” to Austria.

And you also can place macros and RWY12 objects.

So when you make a addition for your own object (the Guid Number) in the object textfile (Sbuilder/Tools) and a preview bmp, you can place this objects as well.
Luis takes only the Guid numbers and place the object.

Regards
Horst

boleyd · Post by **boleyd** » Wed May 04, 2005 2:53 am

New autogen placement program:
http://www.vfraddons.co.uk/artseditor_view.php

Dick Boley near 5G8

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Wed May 04, 2005 3:21 am

Thanks folks, I'll give this a shot.

Now wouldn't it be nice if MS chose in FS10 to release in the SDK the tools that their developers use to create scenery? It would save so much struggling to reverse engineer and recreate tools that likely already exist.

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

Horst · Post by **Horst** » Wed May 04, 2005 4:41 am

Hello,
Quote Jon:
“Now wouldn't it be nice if MS chose in FS10 to release in the SDK the tools that their developers use to create scenery?”

Jon, I do not know!!

But I doubt, that we will get there ArcMap Scripts!

Luis is doing an incredible job, we should use his work!

Regards
Horst

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Wed May 04, 2005 4:47 am

Yes, Horst, I am grateful that clever people like Luis have chosen to try and fill the gap. It would be very difficult without these tools.

AND they probably do use $2,500 tools like ArcInfo, so no wonder we find it difficult!

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

Luis Sa · Post by **Luis Sa** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:01 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JonPatch
 
>- strongly suggest that default data files default
>
>I do not follow you here. Please clarify
>
In Windows, programs are intended to be in the Program Files folder. Data is intended to be in My Documents. However many programs for FS9 put data in the Program Files folder. I back up My Documents regularly, but not Program Files. I can of course change the default myself, and I have done. It's not a big deal, but I suggest that in future versions, default data folders are in My Documents.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi,

You can place SBuilder anywhere. And you can save your projects anywhere. I think that you are referring to the possibility of placing SBuilder.exe in the Program Files Folder under a SBuilder folder and Tools/Work/ in the My Documents folder. And this is not really possible. However, the present configuration has the advantage of keeping things together. I really do not know which way is best!

Regards, Luis

Luis Sa · Post by **Luis Sa** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:09 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JonPatch

I wasn't clear, yes I make many custom buildings with gmax, but but by "building construction" I am referring to the creation of generic buildings.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I know what you are referring to. However SCASM does not support the FS2004 format for generic buildings.

Luis

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:38 am

Luis, would it be difficult to also generate XML?

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim