VTP photo scenery vs. "normal"

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:34 am

Hi Luis,

I understand (and pardon my ignorance here) that there is another method of doing photoscenery, that does not use VTP polygons. This method apparently does not suffer from the "cracks" between LOD13 squares, significant stutters, or the disappearing at 15km issue.

Is it possible to implement this in SBuilder?

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

Luis Sa · Post by **Luis Sa** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:42 am

Hi,

SBuilder does not implement the other method. However you can implement yourself the other method using the resample tool. The INF file can be easily created by copying the data (the 4 bounds and the CellPerDiv) that SBuilder presents to you on the Map properties window. You run resample on the INF to produce the BGL and the bitmaps. These bitmaps are not flipped. Note:

- with the resample method there is no way to apply tranparency on the external zones (boundaries) of your photo
- can not place any VTP item on top of the photo scenery
- you can not (as far as I remember - any one confirms this?) autogen on top of your photo.

A TOTAL DIFFERENT APPROACH - could you test an idea that came to my mind while answering?

a) start a new landclass project and place 4 land items on the 4 vertices of each photo tile. Use class 252 or 253 (depending on the seasons). In a separate job create the bitmaps. May be you need to flip them.

b) Use the BGL created by the landclass project and the existing (possibly flipped) bitmaps.

Does it comes OK? Can you use transp? Do you get the LOD13 gaps? Can you place VTP and autogen on top?

Sorry if you decide to make the test and it comes to nothing!

Luis

rhumbaflappy · Post by **rhumbaflappy** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:19 am

Hi Luis.

A photoreal BGL is simply a landclass BGL that uses 252 or 253 as the landclass number. ( 254 buffers non-used LOD13 areas, just like normal landclass ).

The alpha channel of the non-flipped individual bitmaps will be water.

So can SBuilder make regular photoreal? Yes. Just remember that you don't need to vertically flip the properly-named textures.

Dick

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:58 am

Interesting, Dick. And do you agree with the limitations Luis' mentions:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
- with the resample method there is no way to apply tranparency on the external zones (boundaries) of your photo
- can not place any VTP item on top of the photo scenery
- you can not (as far as I remember - any one confirms this?) autogen on top of your photo.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim

Luis Sa · Post by **Luis Sa** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:14 am

Hi Dick,

Thank you for the input. Unfortunatelly, because of the way SB deals with class scenery, it is not very simple to add an option button to select between "regular" or "VTP" photo scenery.

I could add a switch (may be hidden in the INI file) so that users could set "flip" or "not flip". But I think it is best to leave as it is now. Advanced users can allways use the resample or SB - after reading this topic.

Regards, Luis

Luis Sa · Post by **Luis Sa** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:06 am

Hi,

I am writing this because Dick and Jon posted some follow ups that were lost, because PTSim's site changed the web hosting company.

I am sorry for this.

I remember Dick saying that you can (and should!) apply autogen on top of normal photo scenery!

Regards, Luis

Horst · Post by **Horst** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Hello,

Funny, three days ago I asked in an Austrian forum Joachim (Jobia), if we can “trick“ the FS and his alpha channel for “regular” photo scenery.
I played with it a little, again, - but, no way!
And it also did not show custom waterclass with your own watertextures.
Seem it will use only worldwc.bgl.

But IMHO you can make “inside” your scenery “regular” photo and where you need transparency you can use “VTP” photo.
So, do the scenery twice, and take the parts you need.
(making VTP autogen, take care about the flipped textures, you take)
Use VTP photo as a picture framing, when you do not need VTP overlaying and do not like the gaps (I do not know a resolution for this)

For information:
In the world wind forum the guys put together an interested link list for some orthoimagery sites:
http://forum.worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/ind ... topic=2052
Not only US, also Europe sites.
Some you can see in World Wind, hopefully the rest also sometime.
And I do not know, if everything is properly located.

And google maps beta keyhole, put some data now from digitalglobe in the maps (also for Europe)
Some paint program can help a little.
Bjorn Reppen aka “Mashi” did a script, where you can show these maps in World Wind.
http://mashiharu.com/
http://mashiharu.com/src/GoogleSatellite.jpg

I am not a proponent of photo scenery in FS, and most of the computers can not handle it currently, in all seasons, for huge areas.

But for small areas (airport surroundings, natural wonders, etc. with VTP transparency) or even doing some regional landclass texture, I think it is worth to have a look.
And you are stunning seeing it in the FS.

Here are 2 links:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=porto,+po ... &t=k&hl=en
(look for the famous port wine vineyards)
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=juneau,+a ... &t=k&hl=en
(“zoom” around)

As always, only ideas!

Kind regards
Horst

PS: Think about the copyrights!

rhumbaflappy · Post by **rhumbaflappy** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:57 pm

Hi all.

Alpha transparency is water in photoreal.

A waterclass BGL should work with photoreal, but it's location may need to be in the same folder as worldwc.bgl

Autogen can certainly be used with photoreal. MS even provides an autogen tool in it's Autogen SDK for this.

Dick

scott967 · Post by **scott967** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:04 am

For Dick or Luis:

I have been taking aerials, and FS screenshots, and using a paint program to apply a transparency gradient of one over the other to create more of a smooth transition from photo to landclass.

Then I've been using Terrabuilder to chop it up and it uses the FS2000 resample IIRC to cut the photo at the LOD13 edge.

Can sbuilder do this as well?

scott s.
.

Luis Sa · Post by **Luis Sa** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:51 am

Hi Scott,

I assume you are referring to the possibility of SBuilder to create the bitmaps and the BGL once you get the blended big bitmap prepared elsewhere.

And the answer is not by 2 reasons:

1) first - the bitmaps would be flipped

2) even if you place land class vertex with texture = 252 or 253, the BGL calls 4 photo tiles by each placed vertex.

I think I will add the possibility of placing normal photo scenery in a future revision.

Luis

scott967 · Post by **scott967** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:20 am

Thanks Luis,

Terrabuilder is simple enough for use at this point.

scott s.
.

JonPatch · Post by **JonPatch** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:44 am

Folks, thanks for your help with this. I'm going to stick with my VTP photoscenery for the small areas I am doing (2-22 LOD13 cells). I would probably steer clear of this technique for larger areas due to the sight limitations and the cracks. But it's fine for little bits.

Jon

Check out my addons: www.jonpatch.ca/flightsim