Large Scale Photo Downloads

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boleyd
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:57 pm
Location: USA

Large Scale Photo Downloads

Post by boleyd » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:31 pm

I have asked for this capability but it will not happen due to the concern about Virtual Earth and Yahoo placing a "google like" restriction on photo acquisition. I believe this to be a false choice since it presupposes that SBX is the only program that may load mass amounts of photo material. There may be other programs, for other purposes, that do the same thing removing the safety of any "moderation" that SBX may attempt.

Flight simulator enthusiasts are a small community. An even smaller subset are interested in downloading and preparing photo scenery. Given that other programs may be engaged in mas downloads now, or in the future, we are probably not noticeable.

The issue of copyrights has also arisen. That issue exists regardless if SBX is making it "uncomfortable" to acquire photos or allowing mass downloads. The same "under the radar" logic is used to allow the use of copyrighted material today.

Rather that restrict the use of SBX (the best program of its kind today) I recommend a direct contact with Yahoo and Virtual Earth to structure the use of their photo products for "personal use". Jointly craft a copyright notice that absolves SBX of liability and instead places that stricture on the end user where it belongs.

Downloading the photos "in the shadows" may fail at any time and then the recourse could be limited.

Dick Boley near 5G8

GaryGB
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:04 pm
Location: USA

Post by GaryGB » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:06 pm

Hi Dick:

I wanted to share some observations from my own initial experiences related to this issue in the anticipation that it might be of some help. [:)]

When there is an apparent disruption of imagery downloading, it is important to check what is going on with one's firewall software too.

In order to download photo tiles with GlobalMapper, I had to turn off Norton Internet Security entirely (I haven't figured out what rule to create for the apparent alternate URL being used in the background to implement the connection with their server yet, but when I do, I'll post back here). I plan to test SBuilderX imagery downloads in this regard today, so I am not yet familiar with what may happen with that download scenario, and will report back on that as well.

Also, most people using broadband DSL have an IP address dynamically assigned by their ISP which changes as often as every 10 minutes to every few weeks (or months!) instead of a static assigned IP address.

BTW, people signing up for DSL to get faster download speeds ( for imagery etc. [}:)] ) should be sure that their ISP sales representative is not tricking them into getting a "Static" IP address which they typically charge more for (they tried this with me on one of my DSL accounts!). IMO one should only sign up for a "Dynamic IP" unless one truly needs a fixed or "Static IP" address for a specific reason (and are prepared to pay more and implement more security for any computers and content one may have accessible through such a connection).

If the outside world knows one's IP address for any length of time (whether it is static or dynamically assigned but in use for a while), they can block, snoop or hack into our systems more easily; with "Dynamic IP" broadband accounts, we can change one's address very quickly at our sole discretion and start a new connection ...potentially leaving those who would mess with us back at square one to start over! [:D]

Assuming one has a dynamic IP address, it might be worth trying to disconnect one's connection at the router and/or broadband modem to force the ISP's DHCP server to issue a new IP address to one's connection; this can take a few seconds to a minute or so. Then one might be able to resume one's download session, and IMHO this is not an ethical or legal issue to do on one's own machine.

If the imagery providers began trying to limit downloads by trying to capture and restrict one's ISP "IP prefixes" in addition to machine specific IPs that our ISP assigns dynamically via their DHCP servers, well, that would be subject to a lot of complaints in the forums ...at the very least!

But if imagery providers began trying to limit downloads by trying to even more insidiously capture and restrict one's MAC ID, Networking hardware ID or CPU IDs they would be heading into a very serious public relations meltdown that would cost them more dearly than their licensing agreements with the entities that they get some of their imagery from!

So I think it might be possible to remedy temporary disruptions of downloads by first checking what is going on with one's firewall to see if it is limiting the use of any additional ports that the imagery servers may try to use during a connection for sending tiles in response to our requests.

If that doesn't reveal any change, one might next try resetting one's broadband connection to force allocation of a new IP number for our broadband service; this does not terminate one's account or anything drastic, it just resets the connection electronically with the ISP server.

This "reset broadband connection for a new IP number" procedure can be done either by:

1.) Disconnect and connect buttons inside a Router's web user interface if using a separate router in between the modem and one's computer
2.) The ISP's software "connect and disconnect" feature (usually a link or button on the Windows Desktop) that installed onto one's computer from their custom branded/skinned browser installation and broadband connection setup disk
3.) Simply powering off and powering back up the broadband modem itself (takes about a minute to reinitialize and logon to the ISP again).

Usually one need not even close one's running applications to do this, and a minute later one might be able "refresh" the connection and resume. And if the connection won't refresh, we can simply save our work and restart the application used for the imagery downloads to see if it will then resume.

Hope this helps! [8D]

GaryGB

boleyd
Posts: 402
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:57 pm
Location: USA

Post by boleyd » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:52 pm

My ISP (Comcast) reissues the same IP address no matter what I do with the Netgear router or the cable modem. Unfortunately I cannot see the "lease" termination date on the Netgear GUI. So I have tried this tactic to no avail......

I have never paid any attention to the assigned IP address so I do not know if our recent change (5 months ago) from Adelphia to Comcast gave me a fixed IP or, Comcast has been pressured by commercial interests to use long term IP leases. My bill does not specifically show a fixed IP charge.

Also the IP renew from Comcast is made deliberately long to discourage any attempts to renew. Adelphia used to be fast and the address did change when renewed. Unfortunately, their executives are in jail so I am stuck with Comcast.

Guess I am spoiled. I am used to easily getting large amounts of photo areas from Terraserver and USGS sites.

Dick Boley near 5G8

rhumbaflappy
Posts: 420
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:11 pm

Post by rhumbaflappy » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:05 am

Hi all.

This is not a problem if your photoreal images are for your own use. It is the redistribution of images that can cause a problem.

In this regard, SBuilderX doesn't redistribute the images, but uses a variation of a freely available, copyrighted, open-sourced method of obtaining image tiles from various internet sources. What you do with them is your own problem. If you wish to contact Yahoo or MS about redistributing your work, go ahead... it has nothing to do with SBuilderX, it's author, or contributors.

I recommend using other sources as photoreal content, as a solution to ethical or legal requirements for redistributed scenery.

A good source of color orthophotos for the US can be found:

http://datagateway.nrcs.usda.gov/GatewayHome.html

This is from the US Dept of Agriculture.

Other countries may have sources of free imagery, and posting those sources here would be a good idea.

Dick

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