Creating Shorelines
Creating Shorelines
I have shorelines for an area in the form of LINES file type MP. When using them in SBuilder they function as ordinary VTP lines. That is, they show shore without creating a demarcation for water. Is there a way to change these lines to shorelines funcationality so that they"block land class to stay on one side of the shore?
Hi Dick;
I haven't actually used MP files but I'm assuming you're assigning a VTP linetype when you import e.g. 1027 Ocean Tan sand surf..
That done there should be surf on one side once compiled and viewed in FS. The trick is the direction. If your surf is on the wrong side then you have to bring up the properties of the line segment and reverse the line direction by using the reverse button under the "Points" tab. You can see the line direction by looking at the start (filled) and finish vertices (outline). I believe the surf appears on the west side of a line moving overall north to south.
Ross
I haven't actually used MP files but I'm assuming you're assigning a VTP linetype when you import e.g. 1027 Ocean Tan sand surf..
That done there should be surf on one side once compiled and viewed in FS. The trick is the direction. If your surf is on the wrong side then you have to bring up the properties of the line segment and reverse the line direction by using the reverse button under the "Points" tab. You can see the line direction by looking at the start (filled) and finish vertices (outline). I believe the surf appears on the west side of a line moving overall north to south.
Ross
I did have the wrong shore type selected. Made it 1027 and the surf was up. Had to reverse some.
There still is a question. I usually rely on the AutoASM program to create the shoreline. However, I seem to recall that when the line is set as a shore everything on the surf side becomes water. In effect there is a land side and a water side of the line blocking all but water textures on the surf side. This does not happen in SBuilder. I know nothing about SCASM or XML but could there be a missing parameter that makes the shoreline a true demarcation line?
There still is a question. I usually rely on the AutoASM program to create the shoreline. However, I seem to recall that when the line is set as a shore everything on the surf side becomes water. In effect there is a land side and a water side of the line blocking all but water textures on the surf side. This does not happen in SBuilder. I know nothing about SCASM or XML but could there be a missing parameter that makes the shoreline a true demarcation line?
I'm unfamiliar with AutoASM. With FS default files if you disable an 'HP' LWM file the remaining 'HL' VTP shoreline will display as a vector outline of the water body but with no water (depending on landclass).
I used Ground2K4 a bit prior to Sbuilder and it could automatically draw a VTP shoreline to match the LWM water body you were digitizing. Your description of AutoASM sounds almost the reverse to this.
The width you choose for the shoreline can make quite a difference as well. I'll typically use about 60 for ocean shorelines and 25-40 for lakes. Smaller lakes and ponds I often don't have shorelines for. I find once the width gets too narrow there is a 'water bleed' between the shoreline and the land.
I used Ground2K4 a bit prior to Sbuilder and it could automatically draw a VTP shoreline to match the LWM water body you were digitizing. Your description of AutoASM sounds almost the reverse to this.
The width you choose for the shoreline can make quite a difference as well. I'll typically use about 60 for ocean shorelines and 25-40 for lakes. Smaller lakes and ponds I often don't have shorelines for. I find once the width gets too narrow there is a 'water bleed' between the shoreline and the land.
Thanks - I have the HL & HP bgls blocked for the lod-5 area. AutoASM is not unlike Ground2k. I can declare a VTP line type (1027) and specify the width. In fact I can declare both the LWM and the VTP with the same declaration.
Apparently the VTP declaration of a shore does work in Sbuilder since the surf does appear. I just need to find out why, if I place a 1027 type shore across land why I see land on both sides of the line.
Apparently the VTP declaration of a shore does work in Sbuilder since the surf does appear. I just need to find out why, if I place a 1027 type shore across land why I see land on both sides of the line.
Hello Dick,
It is correct, AutoAsm is reading in a bitmap, and makes own line and polygon.
So you can assign both in one go.
Sbuilder is reading in the “code” and there is a difference between a line and a polygon.
The line will define the shoreline (Vtp).
The polygon will define the LWM, the water area.
(I do not know how to attach a file or an image in this forum).
Draw a line in Sbuilder, something like a circle.
Define the line as i.e 1027 shoreline.
Then click with the right mouse on the line, and “make a polygon” out of the line.
Define the polygon as LWM – water mask, height=0 (or maybe -9999).
Now you have both, a line and a polygon (use the View function in SB)
And you can create 2 bgl. One for the Vtp and one for the LWM.
This is for a lake.
For a ocean water polygon you have to do the “other” side.
If you do not make the polygon from your shorelines, you define only the VTP (something like a road line).
Hope it helps.
Regards
Horst
It is correct, AutoAsm is reading in a bitmap, and makes own line and polygon.
So you can assign both in one go.
Sbuilder is reading in the “code” and there is a difference between a line and a polygon.
The line will define the shoreline (Vtp).
The polygon will define the LWM, the water area.
(I do not know how to attach a file or an image in this forum).
Draw a line in Sbuilder, something like a circle.
Define the line as i.e 1027 shoreline.
Then click with the right mouse on the line, and “make a polygon” out of the line.
Define the polygon as LWM – water mask, height=0 (or maybe -9999).
Now you have both, a line and a polygon (use the View function in SB)
And you can create 2 bgl. One for the Vtp and one for the LWM.
This is for a lake.
For a ocean water polygon you have to do the “other” side.
If you do not make the polygon from your shorelines, you define only the VTP (something like a road line).
Hope it helps.
Regards
Horst
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">citação:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Mensagem original de boleyd</i>
<br />Thanks - I have the HL & HP bgls blocked for the lod-5 area. AutoASM is not unlike Ground2k. I can declare a VTP line type (1027) and specify the width. In fact I can declare both the LWM and the VTP with the same declaration.
Apparently the VTP declaration of a shore does work in Sbuilder since the surf does appear. I just need to find out why, if I place a 1027 type shore across land why I see land on both sides of the line.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I placed a 1027 type shoreline across the tip of an island. The surf was visible. The line, when set to layer 7, was only visible as it crossed the land area. At layer 1 it was only visible where it crossed the water area. In neither case did it cause the land area on the water side of the line to disappear. Width=35 in both cases. The line completely intersected the tip of the island.
<br />Thanks - I have the HL & HP bgls blocked for the lod-5 area. AutoASM is not unlike Ground2k. I can declare a VTP line type (1027) and specify the width. In fact I can declare both the LWM and the VTP with the same declaration.
Apparently the VTP declaration of a shore does work in Sbuilder since the surf does appear. I just need to find out why, if I place a 1027 type shore across land why I see land on both sides of the line.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I placed a 1027 type shoreline across the tip of an island. The surf was visible. The line, when set to layer 7, was only visible as it crossed the land area. At layer 1 it was only visible where it crossed the water area. In neither case did it cause the land area on the water side of the line to disappear. Width=35 in both cases. The line completely intersected the tip of the island.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">citação:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Mensagem original de boleyd</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">citação:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Mensagem original de boleyd</i>
<br />Thanks - I have the HL & HP bgls blocked for the lod-5 area. AutoASM is not unlike Ground2k. I can declare a VTP line type (1027) and specify the width. In fact I can declare both the LWM and the VTP with the same declaration.
Apparently the VTP declaration of a shore does work in Sbuilder since the surf does appear. I just need to find out why, if I place a 1027 type shore across land why I see land on both sides of the line.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I placed a 1027 type shoreline across the tip of an island. The surf was visible. The line, when set to layer 7, was only visible as it crossed the land area. At layer 1 it was only visible where it crossed the water area. In neither case did it cause the land area on the water side of the line to disappear. Width=35 in both cases. The line completely bisected the tip of the island.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">citação:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Mensagem original de boleyd</i>
<br />Thanks - I have the HL & HP bgls blocked for the lod-5 area. AutoASM is not unlike Ground2k. I can declare a VTP line type (1027) and specify the width. In fact I can declare both the LWM and the VTP with the same declaration.
Apparently the VTP declaration of a shore does work in Sbuilder since the surf does appear. I just need to find out why, if I place a 1027 type shore across land why I see land on both sides of the line.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I placed a 1027 type shoreline across the tip of an island. The surf was visible. The line, when set to layer 7, was only visible as it crossed the land area. At layer 1 it was only visible where it crossed the water area. In neither case did it cause the land area on the water side of the line to disappear. Width=35 in both cases. The line completely bisected the tip of the island.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Use Layer 8 and above.
From the terrain vetor data SDK:
Layers and Their Values
Layers define the order in which Flight Simulator applies the textured polygons to the ground and in which phase of the texture building process they are applied.
• Layers 0 to 3 are applied in the water texture layer. These are applied before the water texture is masked into the land texture. These polygons appear only in the water and are clipped by the land portion of a texture.
• Layers 4 to 7 are in the land texture layer. These textures are applied to the land texture before the water texture is masked in. Polygons used at these levels appear on the land texture but are clipped by the water portions. For this reason, airport skirtings and park polygons were placed in layer 4.
• Layers 8 and above (the number of layers is capped at 100) are applied to the texture after the land and water are masked together. Polygons applied at this level appear over both the land and water portions of the texture. Shoreline polygons were placed at level 8 to provide a blending effect between the land and the water.
Horst
From the terrain vetor data SDK:
Layers and Their Values
Layers define the order in which Flight Simulator applies the textured polygons to the ground and in which phase of the texture building process they are applied.
• Layers 0 to 3 are applied in the water texture layer. These are applied before the water texture is masked into the land texture. These polygons appear only in the water and are clipped by the land portion of a texture.
• Layers 4 to 7 are in the land texture layer. These textures are applied to the land texture before the water texture is masked in. Polygons used at these levels appear on the land texture but are clipped by the water portions. For this reason, airport skirtings and park polygons were placed in layer 4.
• Layers 8 and above (the number of layers is capped at 100) are applied to the texture after the land and water are masked together. Polygons applied at this level appear over both the land and water portions of the texture. Shoreline polygons were placed at level 8 to provide a blending effect between the land and the water.
Horst
Horst,
I have tried various layer numbers but always the same - the shore appears, there is surf but there is erasing of the land on the surf side of the line. I remember using Ground2K and having land leakage if two shores did not properly touch and the need to have the shoreline either "backfilled" or covering the edge of the land.
I am wondering if the LWM watermask that is produced from the SHP to MP to BLN is the problem. The BLN image is simply a set of water mask polygons set to a -9999 elevation. There are no specific land elements in the image. It is only a mask. Or is it?? In this case is it laying a water texture on top of whatever normall exists beneath it? In ground2K I always used landclass. Here it is a "mask".
I have tried various layer numbers but always the same - the shore appears, there is surf but there is erasing of the land on the surf side of the line. I remember using Ground2K and having land leakage if two shores did not properly touch and the need to have the shoreline either "backfilled" or covering the edge of the land.
I am wondering if the LWM watermask that is produced from the SHP to MP to BLN is the problem. The BLN image is simply a set of water mask polygons set to a -9999 elevation. There are no specific land elements in the image. It is only a mask. Or is it?? In this case is it laying a water texture on top of whatever normall exists beneath it? In ground2K I always used landclass. Here it is a "mask".
Dick,
Yes, with LWM you "cut" a hole, a mask, using the textures defined from the default landclass or waterclass files (or maybe custom LC and WC).
When there is nothing defined in your area, you will not see anything, or the wrong thing.
Is this process clear?
(Maybe I can explain it.
It was land inside a big inland lake.
I will try to link to a series of images I uploaded to a german forum: A problem in an commercial Addon for Austria)
When you append a polygon in SB you can use “create a closed line for every imported polygon?” (and define the line and the polygon).
You will have then identical points. One define the LWM water mask (the polygon) and one the VTP shoreline (the line, with the wave effect i.e 1072).
If you have a chance, can you upload an image? (maybe helpful)
Horst
Yes, with LWM you "cut" a hole, a mask, using the textures defined from the default landclass or waterclass files (or maybe custom LC and WC).
When there is nothing defined in your area, you will not see anything, or the wrong thing.
Is this process clear?
(Maybe I can explain it.
It was land inside a big inland lake.
I will try to link to a series of images I uploaded to a german forum: A problem in an commercial Addon for Austria)
When you append a polygon in SB you can use “create a closed line for every imported polygon?” (and define the line and the polygon).
You will have then identical points. One define the LWM water mask (the polygon) and one the VTP shoreline (the line, with the wave effect i.e 1072).
If you have a chance, can you upload an image? (maybe helpful)
Horst
Hi Dick,
As RF and Horst pointed out, you need to make a polygon (island or lake or whatever) and then, for the bank, you need to make a line (1027 or other with or without waves).
You can not (as in G2K) make a polygon with shore in one go.
The best you can do is to make a line out of the polygon, which gives you the same result.
It is also important that you understand what Horst referred to in relation to the layers. Normally I use layer 8 for banks. In doing so, half of the width of the line covers the land and the other half covers the water (I am assuming a line with witdh made out of a polygon). I declare it, say 7, only the half on top of land will show.
Luis
As RF and Horst pointed out, you need to make a polygon (island or lake or whatever) and then, for the bank, you need to make a line (1027 or other with or without waves).
You can not (as in G2K) make a polygon with shore in one go.
The best you can do is to make a line out of the polygon, which gives you the same result.
It is also important that you understand what Horst referred to in relation to the layers. Normally I use layer 8 for banks. In doing so, half of the width of the line covers the land and the other half covers the water (I am assuming a line with witdh made out of a polygon). I declare it, say 7, only the half on top of land will show.
Luis
Ok, the answer is simple - the polygons that comprise the Shape files must be converted to VTP2 lines with a 1027 texture. I did a few existing polygons and the shoreline appeared where it should and with the usual surf.
Sometimes it is difficult to understand explanations when you are believing that your basic premise is true. In this case I believed that the LWM polygons, converted to VTP2 polygons (with 1027) should work. I also created a VTP2 line that did not work because it was on top of an area "cutout" by an LWM polygon.
Ground2K and AutoASM made it too easy so I never understood, nor did I have to, the underlying process.
Thanks!,
Sometimes it is difficult to understand explanations when you are believing that your basic premise is true. In this case I believed that the LWM polygons, converted to VTP2 polygons (with 1027) should work. I also created a VTP2 line that did not work because it was on top of an area "cutout" by an LWM polygon.
Ground2K and AutoASM made it too easy so I never understood, nor did I have to, the underlying process.
Thanks!,